Becoming a Father: Practical Duties and the Change Process

[AEON]

I got married last year, and recently my wife found out we’re expecting our first.
I’m enormously ecstatic and grateful to GOD, as expected, and continuously think about the child’s future such as when to start the physical training at 1-year age or 3, or will things be so f-ed up that I will be forced to homeschool.

Interested in knowing about your actual experiences and ideas.

 

[MrRedsquare]

 

[Christos_NIKA]

I got 4/6.

 

[Thomas More]

I have all 7!

 

[FrancisK]

One time my mom got even more angry because the wooden spoke broke on me.

 

[SpyofMoses]

One time my mom got even more angry because the wooden spoke broke on me.

Growing up I only ever got the hand and was constantly reminded how lucky I was by the previous generation. They told stories of the belt, and the switch, and the schoolteacher and all. It made me glad I didn't get abused while reinforcing the old school discipline method.

People who's behavior demonstrates having never experienced any of these have what I call Over-grown toddler syndrome(OTS for short). If there's anything they all have in common, it's being a leftist.

 

[Horus]

Growing up I only ever got the hand and was constantly reminded how lucky I was by the previous generation. They told stories of the belt, and the switch, and the schoolteacher and all. It made me glad I didn't get abused while reinforcing the old school discipline method.

People who's behavior demonstrates having never experienced any of these have what I call Over-grown toddler syndrome(OTS for short). If there's anything they all have in common, it's being a leftist.

Hitting your children to correct their behaviour is as bad as hitting your wife when you don't like her behaviour. It is assault and never productive when raising children. When you hit your kids "out of love," you have no idea how cowardly and pathetic you look. Is that all you have to discipline your kids? Do you think you'll develop a trusting relationship with your kids when you react to their mistakes with violence?

 

[Alpha Hunter Zero]

Hitting your children to correct their behaviour is as bad as hitting your wife when you don't like her behaviour. It is assault and never productive when raising children. When you hit your kids "out of love," you have no idea how cowardly and pathetic you look. Is that all you have to discipline your kids? Do you think you'll develop a trusting relationship with your kids when you react to their mistakes with violence?

 

[Thomas More]

Hitting your children to correct their behaviour is as bad as hitting your wife when you don't like her behaviour. It is assault and never productive when raising children. When you hit your kids "out of love," you have no idea how cowardly and pathetic you look. Is that all you have to discipline your kids? Do you think you'll develop a trusting relationship with your kids when you react to their mistakes with violence?

It worked out alright with my parents and me. Based on experience and observation, I'd say it doesn't always work out the way you are portraying. In fact, I'd say you've mischaracterized the situation completely.

I admit your scenario happens sometimes, but that's when either the parents are screwed up or the kids. Some kids are just bound and determined to go wrong and blame their parents no matter how well their parents try to raise them.

Those messed up kids will blame spanking if there is any, but they are not a reliable judge of the situation. I trust well adjusted people who say spanking didn't harm them over messed up people who say it did.

 

[DanielH]

It worked out alright with my parents and me. Based on experience and observation, I'd say it doesn't always work out the way you are portraying. In fact, I'd say you've mischaracterized the situation completely.

I admit your scenario happens sometimes, but that's when either the parents are screwed up or the kids. Some kids are just bound and determined to go wrong and blame their parents no matter how well their parents try to raise them.

Those messed up kids will blame spanking if there is any, but they are not a reliable judge of the situation. I trust well adjusted people who say spanking didn't harm them over messed up people who say it did.

Seems like it depends on the individual kid. I only have a 2 year old son and I know people with just one child tend to think it's all nurture and not nature, while people with more children realize nature plays a huge part outside of your parenting. I'm thinking if a boy is really just not getting the message after trying all else, and especially if they do something like insult their mother, some physical punishment may be in order.

 

[Gazza]

It worked out alright with my parents and me. Based on experience and observation, I'd say it doesn't always work out the way you are portraying. In fact, I'd say you've mischaracterized the situation completely.

I admit your scenario happens sometimes, but that's when either the parents are screwed up or the kids. Some kids are just bound and determined to go wrong and blame their parents no matter how well their parents try to raise them.

Those messed up kids will blame spanking if there is any, but they are not a reliable judge of the situation. I trust well adjusted people who say spanking didn't harm them over messed up people who say it did.

Spare the rod…………..

 

[Samseau]

I'd like to offer an easy way to discipline a spoiled child without using ANY physical force, and it is 10x more effective in my experience.

Although I've never had children, I did social work as my first job out of college with children from broken homes, and they would often be unruly. Using the following technique, which I learned from my family (who also never hit me, although I got slapped in my face in my teens once), you can control any child under the age of 12 effortlessly:

Tickle Torture.

Any young child who is excessively crying for something, or being spoiled, or whining, or hitting his siblings, or doing something you don't like - you just start tickling them relentlessly until they stop.

I personally like to take my pinky finger and dig it right into the pressure points of a young child: around the collar bone, the sides of the ribs, under the armpits, etc.

They can be crying because you won't give them their favorite candy, and immediately switch to laughing hysterically and begging you to stop. I usually say something like,

"If you don't stop doing X, I'm going to have to tickle you..." And when it starts I say "Tickle tickle tickle tickle tickle tickle tickle (etc)" in a high pitched voice until they are rolling on the ground screaming for mercy while dying of laughter as tears come out of their eyes. My father would do the same thing to me if I was spoiled.

For children under 5, it has worked for me 100% of the time! And the best part is, you won't feel guilty at all. Your wife or other women around you will be laughing too, because no harm is being done to the child. You just keep tickling the child until the child agrees to stop doing whatever it is you want them to stop doing.

It may sound ridiculous, but once you try it you'll never go back to any other form of discipline for young children.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Yeah...

I'd like to offer an easy way to discipline a spoiled child without using ANY physical force, and it is 10x more effective in my experience.

Although I've never had children, I did social work as my first job out of college with children from broken homes, and they would often be unruly. Using the following technique, which I learned from my family (who also never hit me, although I got slapped in my face in my teens once), you can control any child under the age of 12 effortlessly:

Tickle Torture.

Any young child who is excessively crying for something, or being spoiled, or whining, or hitting his siblings, or doing something you don't like - you just start tickling them relentlessly until they stop.

I personally like to take my pinky finger and dig it right into the pressure points of a young child: around the collar bone, the sides of the ribs, under the armpits, etc.

They can be crying because you won't give them their favorite candy, and immediately switch to laughing hysterically and begging you to stop. I usually say something like,

"If you don't stop doing X, I'm going to have to tickle you..." And when it starts I say "Tickle tickle tickle tickle tickle tickle tickle (etc)" in a high pitched voice until they are rolling on the ground screaming for mercy while dying of laughter as tears come out of their eyes. My father would do the same thing to me if I was spoiled.

For children under 5, it has worked for me 100% of the time! And the best part is, you won't feel guilty at all. Your wife or other women around you will be laughing too, because no harm is being done to the child. You just keep tickling the child until the child agrees to stop doing whatever it is you want them to stop doing.

It may sound ridiculous, but once you try it you'll never go back to any other form of discipline for young children.

I get where you're going with this... But having raised 6 boys this is not a tactic I found to be particularly effective personally.

I also believe It runs the risk of turning play into a punishment.

I have tickled the kids when they are acting silly, and pouty...but If they are hitting or acting disrespectful or acting out... I don't recommend this tactic at all.

I tell the kids to stop, If they don't they get a swat on the butt. Usually that's sufficient at 5 to get them to stop.

The issue with the tickle thing is what happens when they are 6 or 8 or 10? Firmness and the understanding of consequences are first understood around age 4... Which is the time to reinforce this though your boundaries set with the children.

I understand it might work in a social worker setting... But in a fatherly scenario, I think more strict boundaries with consequences is in no order.

On the other hand... I've seen many Orthodox parents who are incredibly lackadaisical with the behavior they allowed their children to do. Many are into the "don't spank your kids" and "just explain it 10x to them"... It's not been my experience that this approach works at all.

 

[Samseau]

Yeah...

I get where you're going with this... But having raised 6 boys this is not a tactic I found to be particularly effective personally.

I also believe It runs the risk of turning play into a punishment.

I have tickled the kids when they are acting silly, and pouty...but If they are hitting or acting disrespectful or acting out... I don't recommend this tactic at all.

I tell the kids to stop, If they don't they get a swat on the butt. Usually that's sufficient at 5 to get them to stop.

The issue with the tickle thing is what happens when they are 6 or 8 or 10? Firmness and the understanding of consequences are first understood around age 4... Which is the time to reinforce this though your boundaries set with the children.

I understand it might work in a social worker setting... But in a fatherly scenario, I think more strict boundaries with consequences is in no order.

On the other hand... I've seen many Orthodox parents who are incredibly lackadaisical with the behavior they allowed their children to do. Many are into the "don't spank your kids" and "just explain it 10x to them"... It's not been my experience that this approach works at all.

Naturally, things change dramatically when handling so many boys at once. You have an issue of scale. You're raising an army, not just a child here.

If you focus on tickling one, then the others won't take you seriously unless you have to turn to them. Conversely the fear of the smackdown will keep the others in line if necessary.

Still, for 99% of minor infractions the tickle method is very powerful.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Naturally, things change dramatically when handling so many boys at once. You have an issue of scale. You're raising an army, not just a child here.

If you focus on tickling one, then the others won't take you seriously unless you have to turn to them. Conversely the fear of the smackdown will keep the others in line if necessary.

Still, for 99% of minor infractions the tickle method is very powerful.

Haha yes a small sports team.

There's obviously different philosophies, but I think the swift swat on the butt is way more effective used sparingly and, as long as you're not overdoing it or overreacting, generally pretty well understood by the kids.

For instance, you can't tickle a kid in church if they are acting up. But I've absolutely spanked a child outside church or given a boy a quick pop on the butt and told em to act right...

I only tickle the kids when they are pouty or when I tuck em in at night or if we are wrestling.

 

[Northumber]

This is such good advice:

It strikes me as so simple but I suppose the reality of things is often much more simple than we imagine them to be.

 

[Cornelius V.E.]

I highly recommend Priestmonk Kosmas's advice for parents (given in 5 separate talks). You can find them here: https://www.orthodoxtalks.com/upbringing-of-children/

 

[Unending Powerhouse Match]

Hitting your children to correct their behaviour is as bad as hitting your wife when you don't like her behaviour. It is assault and never productive when raising children. When you hit your kids "out of love," you have no idea how cowardly and pathetic you look. Is that all you have to discipline your kids? Do you think you'll develop a trusting relationship with your kids when you react to their mistakes with violence?

Listen, I understand the concern. Some people are absolutely barbaric. I know of a man whose mother struck him with a machete when he was a child and crippled him for life. I know of people whose mothers left them nasty gashes with a cable or burned their hands on the stove. Obviously, that's not discipline, that's abuse, and they are very different things.

While it is true that things like positive reinforcement can go a long way, I think corporal punishment, especially when it comes to children under the age of reason, is not only effective but in fact necessary. You have to communicate that certain behaviors are not acceptable and have consequences, and kids under a certain age hardly understand anything other than physical stimuli as they are mostly running on mimicry and instincts.

What is key is that you do not actually do any real harm to the child (a quick slap in the butt, or a light slipper strike, is objectively harmless), that you only use corporal punishment when it's clearly justified (you don't want him to have memories of you slapping him when he was not at fault or over some inane BS), and that you do it dispassionately, with absolutely no anger. Children can perceive that, and frankly, it's the difference between them growing to fear and resent you or not. A child is not a punching bag.

The most you should do is a slap, and never at full strength if you're a man. I don't think anything beyond that is ever justified, because then you actually risk causing real harm like a wound or fracture. Even belts are stepping into "it's not impossible to accidentally draw blood" territory. I don't really see any situation happening where a slap would not get the point across and you'd have to be like "aw shucks, time to bring out the big guns, where's my sturdy wooden spoon?".

 

[scary_robot_music]

Listen, I understand the concern. Some people are absolutely barbaric. I know of a man whose mother struck him with a machete when he was a child and crippled him for life. I know of people whose mothers left them nasty gashes with a cable or burned their hands on the stove. Obviously, that's not discipline, that's abuse, and they are very different things.

While it is true that things like positive reinforcement can go a long way, I think corporal punishment, especially when it comes to children under the age of reason, is not only effective but in fact necessary. You have to communicate that certain behaviors are not acceptable and have consequences, and kids under a certain age hardly understand anything other than physical stimuli as they are mostly running on mimicry and instincts.

What is key is that you do not actually do any real harm to the child (a quick slap in the butt, or a light slipper strike, is objectively harmless), that you only use corporal punishment when it's clearly justified (you don't want him to have memories of you slapping him when he was not at fault or over some inane BS), and that you do it dispassionately, with absolutely no anger. Children can perceive that, and frankly, it's the difference between them growing to fear and resent you or not. A child is not a punching bag.

I think you've got it almost 100% right here. That first paragraph. Imagine burning a child's hands on the stove. I know it gets that bad in families sometimes but I don't quite understand how.

I really liked the last paragraph of yours that I quoted here: "you do it dispassionately, with absolutely no anger." That's probably the key. Probably not frequently too, but the kids know that the possibility exists.

 

[Get2choppaaa]

Hitting your children to correct their behaviour is as bad as hitting your wife when you don't like her behaviour. It is assault and never productive when raising children. When you hit your kids "out of love," you have no idea how cowardly and pathetic you look. Is that all you have to discipline your kids? Do you think you'll develop a trusting relationship with your kids when you react to their mistakes with violence?

What do you define as hitting?

Is spanking hitting?

I got spanked as a child when I acted out... I love my father and thank God everyday he was firm and fair with me.

I think we just need to understand what you mean by "hitting"

If you're equating spanking in the same boat... I think you're woefully incorrect. Can't tell you the number of families I see at church with children whom are totally unruly and have fathers whom take the peaceful parenting approach and hate their lives.

Again, it shouldn't be used all the time, only when a child is not listening and has been warned appropriately.

Dont know if you have kids or how many... But you cant reason with a disobedient child when they know there are no real consequences and at say 5 years old, grounding isn't effective.